Before you read the question at hand, consider this: I am tired, my big project at work is at a standstill, it is hot and humid, and there is nothing good on TV. This unhealthy living environment brought an avalanche of unneeded thoughts about our existanse as a human race, and what it all means in the end.
Uh ... the end. The ultimate, fascinating finish line humans make movies about, compose books of, plays, discussions, spawn various religions trying to explain what happens when THE switch is actually pulled. I thought about this subject extensively, and went on various tangents analyzing what our existance of an individual human being means. And what did I come up with? Well, the answer is "Nothing". Think about it. We swirm in our everyday lives, get upset over little things, join the rest of the herd in a constant race for something that ultimately does not matter. Then some nuts try to convince us that there is light in the end of the tunnel, as long as we keep donating $ to their religious establishment. Then we die. Our intestants are pulled out, skin balzamed, and off we go into a wooden box six feet under. And we lay there. While decomposing.
So the question is: are our worries, worthless tragedies, soul suffering worth it, considering the ultimate end?
Fuck it ... if only my project worked ....
Igor,
ReplyDeleteI see that frustration is bringing out your spiritual side...interesting :) Who told you that there is Nothing when you die? Who told you that you are nothing more than your body that decomposes? I disagree with both of those and so do most of the religions and spiritual practices. There is plenty of scientific evidence that proves me correct that we can discuss if you so choose.
As to your larger existential question of is it worth it? I believe it is, for the meaning of physical life is to experience certain things for your soul to grow. Thus all of the tragedies, worries, suffering, love, sex, tennis, friendships, projects that don't work is all so you can know thyself.
I am not going all out on this answer since I know more is coming from you. So let's get it on :)
"There is plenty of scientific evidence that proves me correct that we can discuss if you so choose." - show me ONE scientific piece of evidence that supports what your theory please. And by scientific, I mean something measurable and quantifiable.
ReplyDeleteTrigor,
ReplyDeleteCheck out http://www.near-death.com/evidence.html to start. Internets as you call them are a thing of beauty lol.
This is not scientific evidence. This is merely a collection of first account of near death experience. "I saw an alien ship hovering around my house" is not a scientific evidence: in fact, there is NO evidence that this event occured. If you showed me unalrtered photo, the actual ship: that would be considered evidence.
ReplyDeleteIs not the one single religious tenet faith. And faith means that you need not scientific proof but only to believe. Can we not scientifically prove that the dinosaurs - or something certainly much larger and with a lot more teeth - lived before man? Absolutley. Does that deny the fact that the one book of Christian faith - the Bible - states God made the world in a week? Absolutely not.
ReplyDeleteSo why you be proven or not proven that life after death exists? Should you just not take it on faith that it does. Besides, worrying causes more stress than acceptance. Is a leming not better off than a stock broker?
But to answer your real question, it could exist, we just haven't created the tools to measure it. Eventually everyone knew that "little bugs" caused sickness or even that the atom existed, we just couldn't see it.
David LaForce
I agree, David. At some point people thought the Earth is flat, because they had no way to prove otherwise. And now every year we find something we didn't think was possible. If quarks can vibrate in a way that creates matter (which, Trigor, is a scientific fact)than isn't it possible they also vibrate to create something else which we cannot detect with 5 senses?
ReplyDeletePhysics is a science that shows us the endless possibilities of our reality. And physisits will also agree that there is so much unknows that proving anything right now is unfortunately not possible. Masha
David and Masha: both of are right in your reasoning. But, until we have technology to prove it: don't say that there IS life after death. It is funny how people walk around claiming that they have experienced life after death. Blah.
ReplyDeleteWhen everyone found out the earth was round, they accepted it (with time, after burning a few dozen people who pushed the idea through). Given the reasoning, and a PROOF: no problem. But till then: no bs!
BTW, my project is improving. I figured out what was happening! :)
Trigor,
ReplyDeleteAs science is evolving you have to accept the current technologies. For instance, they are coming up with methods like described by Dan Brown in his latest book (book is fiction, the experiment he described is not.) What they have done is create a machine, a scale, that weighs the person to the microns(?). After a person that is about to die lays on it they get the exact weight, then the person dies and they noticed that the weight is less by some number. When that experiment was recreated many times and the results are the same there are interesting explanations such as the weight of the soul that leaves the body. I know you are bursting to give your theories (air, etc.) but read the experiment for yourself - look up http://lilt.ilstu.edu/kfmachin/FOI/Weight%20of%20human%20soul.htm and Noetic science.
Also you keep dismissing the scientific findings we have talked about above that take what the person said once they experienced clinical death and verified it. I am not sure why that is not proof enough for you.
Finally, I know you are playing your role well and defending your point but there is plenty of reputable proof and I don't believe you need to go further arguing.
Ok, read about the experiment. Here is an anti-link to your link:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.snopes.com/religion/soulweight.asp
You give me a link to some wacko who supposedely weighs people right at the moment of their death. No information is provided on what scales were used, wether people who died were using exactly the same bed and linens, how weight was recorded, when, how the EXACT time of death was determined, and even the findings themselves (read on the snopes link I posted above) are contradictory!
Or maybe you want to use Dan Brown's book as scientific evidence? LULZ!!! Your claim of scientific proof of life after death is FALSE.
Trigor,
ReplyDeleteLook, I will include one more site for your to peruse and will stop belaboring this point after that. There is and there has been a lot of research on the topic of what happens after we die - you just have to read it. Whether you believe it or not is irrelevant to me - it is your belief. To me the fact that there is life after death is a non-arguable.
I have spoken with too many people, had past-life regressions, communicated with entities that have told me of things nobody had known about, healed wounds on my own, helped with a crime scene investigation by connecting to the murder in a meditative state, etc, etc, etc. The world "unseen" is as real as the things you can touch and science is now verifying it as it catches up to what sages have been writing for thousands of years. I know you are a skeptic and that is your way - which is fine by me but don't dismiss things without fully researching them.
http://www.nderf.org/
Allen, at no point did I tell you not to believe in the concept of the afterlife. Nor did I say that I don't believe in it. All I said that there is no SCIENTIFIC proof that such entity exists. At this point in time, you believe in nothing more but a hearsay, and fairy tale that perhaps will help you live your life out more comfortably. Not that there is anything wrong with that.
ReplyDeleteJust don't say that there is a scientific proof that people experienced afterlife. There is none. Your link is a subjective collection of first hand accounts of such experiences. That in itself is not a scientific proof.
Igor.
Trigor,
ReplyDeleteAs I said this discussion is going nowhere. I have sent you links of scientists doing experiments and documenting and publishing them. What you believe is up to you. Let's move on to another topic.
As a friend of mine put it: "if an idiot BELIEVES something, it is based on faith, and using logic to dissuade him is a tragic waste of time".
ReplyDeleteIndeed, lets move on.
It is funny because I feel the same about you, LUDZ.
ReplyDelete